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 Help with VSR-10 Upgrades

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Gmery
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:29 am

well right now im trying to find whatever i can lay my hands on that its not that expensive and springs are the thing im looking for, my bbs right now are 25's im looking to get a good range and accuracy with 30's but yeah that will take awhile, i'll do the proper tests on the piston
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ACE
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:36 am

Gmery wrote:
well right now im trying to find whatever i can lay my hands on that its not that expensive and springs are the thing im looking for, my bbs right now are 25's im looking to get a good range and accuracy with 30's but yeah that will take awhile, i'll do the proper tests on the piston

You don't test the piston, you test the cylinder set as a whole for the compression test.

As far as bbs go:

450-500 fps, use .30g bbs.
500-550 fps. Use .36g or .40g bbs
550+ fps, use .43g bbs

The above should definitely help you out with accuracy, range, and performance. I shoot .25s out of everything I have, even my 280 fps shotgun. I use .28g bbs if I shoot between 400-450 fps.

Try that out though.
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Gmery
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:48 am

so any recomendations onto what spring i can get thats powerful and wont destroy my internals for now?, i'm looking for a good increment so i can change bb grams
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:03 am

Gmery wrote:
so any recomendations onto what spring i can get thats powerful and wont destroy my internals for now?, i'm looking for a good increment so i can change bb grams

What fps are you trying to achieve then as far as fps?
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Gmery
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:04 am

i'd say bout 550 with good weighted bb round 30 ish
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ACE
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:28 am

Gmery wrote:
i'd say bout 550 with good weighted bb round 30 ish

So wait, you want the FPS to be 550 fps WITH using .30g bbs?

If that is the case, you would have to get a spring that is about 600+ fps.
(All spring manufacturers use a .20g bb to rate their springs.)

Thirdly, a buddy of mine used a spring that shot 600 fps. he shot it once and it destroyed the front of his PDI Hard piston, just an FYI.

If that is what you want, then look into the SS4000 and SS5000 springs by PDI.
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:38 am

then lets go down to something that wont make my gun go FUBAR haha! anything between decent fps range and like non explosive? SS2000 you said? i found those for bar-10 only tho do they fit?
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:54 am

Look into the SPR 250% or the SPR 300%.

BTW, do you guys have any FPS limits at your fields?
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:59 am

not that i've heard of i really don't shoot people that close so thats why i'm investing into my sniper cause i really to shoot from far if i get too close i just bang them out ;P
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:00 am

is this what you're telling me to get?
http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/Airsoft_PDI_VSR_10_SPR_300_Spring_p/66273.htm

that works on 96's?
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ACE
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:01 am

Gmery wrote:
is this what you're telling me to get?
http://www.airsoftatlanta.com/Airsoft_PDI_VSR_10_SPR_300_Spring_p/66273.htm

that works on 96's?

According to X-fire, PDI's main distributor, yes it will work in any bolt action rifle.
http://www.x-fire.org/etop/bolt_sp_thicker.html

Airsoft Atlanta marketed and labeled it for the VSR market though for some reason.
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:59 am

The PDI SS2000 spring is the spring that destroyed the PDI Vacuum piston. 5 shots and then it crushed it. And it also bent my trigger sear from my laylax zero trigger. It could not hold the spring back.

Get the SPR300. You will be happy.

And just a word of advice about the PDI SS springs...you need to be ready for some strain when it comes to pulling back the bolt. Its insane.

Go with the SPR, I replaced the SS2000 with that and Im really happy. But now I need a new trigger.
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Repo
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:46 am

At $1000 dollars later you too can have a sniper rifle with slightly increased range and accuracy.
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:25 pm

Repo wrote:
At $1000 dollars later you too can have a sniper rifle with slightly increased range and accuracy.

Shenaniganz. I call Shenaniganz to that good sir.

For less than $1000 you can have triple the range and accuracy compared to the stock comparison. The VSR-10 shoots and hits about 150 feet to 170 feet. That is stock though.

Upgrading the tightbore, bucking, as well as the cylinder set and you are looking at a rifle that can probably reach about 300 feet depending on the shooter and the quality of the parts chosen.

But with that said, airsoft sniper rifles are the type where you go all in to get the top performance, or you will be stuck with a handicap in the aeg range.

I am sorry, but the VSR-10 Gspec is a great rifle to build off of. It has nice performance out of the box, but it is by no means a god of all rifles, especially stock.
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:27 pm

EuroSoft78 wrote:
The PDI SS2000 spring is the spring that destroyed the PDI Vacuum piston. 5 shots and then it crushed it. And it also bent my trigger sear from my laylax zero trigger. It could not hold the spring back.

Get the SPR300. You will be happy.

And just a word of advice about the PDI SS springs...you need to be ready for some strain when it comes to pulling back the bolt. Its insane.

Go with the SPR, I replaced the SS2000 with that and Im really happy. But now I need a new trigger.

before i had replaced my trigger for some reason pulling the bolt back was pretty hard but now it seems pretty smooth and easy so i don't know i'll sure have to chrono my gun tho to see how hard and constant my spring is being
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:38 pm

you guys know any discount code for ehobby asia?
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:12 pm

most of the smart guys that use lipo run 350 or so fps, everyone else is about 400-420
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:24 pm

You can never outrange a aeg with a sniper, because of the fact the real limit is the ammo itself. You can't get triple the range either, I doubt any airsoft sniper will ever get over a 400 ft range much less over 500 ft.

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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:41 pm

Repo wrote:
You can never outrange a aeg with a sniper, because of the fact the real limit is the ammo itself. You can't get triple the range either, I doubt any airsoft sniper will ever get over a 400 ft range much less over 500 ft.


Yea you can. An airsoft AEG has an average EFFECTIVE range of about 120 feet. When upgraded, a bolt-action sniper rifle has an EFFECTIVE range of say 250 feet. Not necessarily tripling like I said before, but it sure as hell can have an increased range far superior to an AEG. An AEG cannot have the accuracy or consistency to that of a bolt action when fully upgraded. If put to their max, a bolt-action would still surpass the aeg in consistency and accuracy just due to the systems in which they are based on.

350' Shot with a VSR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AFPSGd6j8I&feature=related

400' Shot with a VSR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJtgXkJFnyw

2/3 hits at 400 feet is pretty damn surprising isn't it? A have never seen an AEG do that, and no gearbox would be able to contain spring that powerful to do it. And plus, technically a person could you use a gun like that at an SFAR since there is no fps limit....

With that said, where are you getting your facts to support your claims? I have personal experience with trial-and-error along with help from known members of the airsoft sniping the community such as Noobie and MarineSGT from Airsoftretreat. I not only look at the performance, but how everything actually works. How the actual system of a bolt-action will surpass the accuracy of an AEG due to the less complications. The one handicap though is rate of fire.

Don't think that I am flaming anybody. I would just like the individuals interested in airsoft sniping to know the facts as they are. Not someones personal opinion passed off as purely fact. I personally don't snipe anymore myself. I love working on the rifles, I have the patience to low crawl 250' to evade someone, but I just prefer the assault role now.
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:19 pm

I talked to many of the people on airsoftforum when I was thinking of spending the money on upgrading a sniper and their comments made me not want to spend the grand marker to do it. BTW message that guy and ask him his eventual price tag in getting that range. The maker of the video (400 ft shot) even states how it was a extremely long process and expensive to get it stable. Stable is a word used often when I have talked on forums to people about sniper rifle platforms. Being able to shoot 250+ for a few shots after you tweak the weapon in a no wind environment downhill is not the normal conditions most people will face.

Ace, not to flame ya, but basically that rifle he uses in those shooting test videos would not make it into any real OP and would be extremely dangerous to use. The YoutubeOP puts the FPS he is using in the discussion section of one of his videos and at one point he has his rifle shooting over 600 fps with .43s. You could take the time to money to achieve that range but anywhere with a chrono (or after someone goes to the hospital to remove a bb stuck inside them) would not allow that rifle so its not a real example to prove a point of what a sniper rifle can achieve in airsoft because it cannot be used.

I don't know how you can say 120 feet is the range of a aeg (are you talking about chinese stock clones?), are you talking about a single shot? If you are talking about a single shot you are trying to give the hinderance of a sniper to a aeg and that really doesn't support the reason to uprade a sniper.

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ACE
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:13 pm

I was using the video as an example that bolt actions are capable to hitting those distances. I am not a retard or incompetent moron. I never said it was safe, or that the price was not astronomical. If you look at it as well, the price has alot of accessories and some parts that weren't eventual part of the final build. I was just using it as an example that bolt-actions can at least that, but no AEG is capable of reaching those stats.

If you read my statement, it was that the average EFFECTIVE distance is about 120 feet. Effective is a word used often to desribe hitting a target consistenly. Most people consider effective range as a range that you can hit with your rifle 9/10 or 10/10 times consistently. Whether with or without wind.

THAT is effective range. Spraying an area 175ft down with automatic fire and hitting the guy with one bb out of half a mag doesn't qualify such a rifle as having an effective range at 175ft per say. That is called chance.

A DMR is not a sniper rifle. It is a Designated Marksman Rifle. It is used by a Designated Marksman who puts rapid, accurate fire down range to hit targets that are outside of the squads range. A Designated Marksman is NOT sniper.

The role of a sniper is not that of a Designated Marksman. A sniper usually provides recon on objectives and will take out high-valued targets. A sniper just doesn't run around with a rifle try to pick of random people. A sniper doesn't run along with the team and act as a DM. The DM has their role which is providing RAPID, Accurate fire which a Sniper cannot.

I know this is the airsoft realm, but you cannot state that a sniper uses a DMR. A DM doesn't use a sniper rifle. They are two different roles. In the military, DMs go through only half the training of sniping school. The snipers that go to sniper school spend alot more time on field craft then.

Notice that you said that from 240 feet away, the DMR is hitting about 50% of the time. A bolt-action sniper rifle with the right upgrades would be able to hit that target with alot more consistency. The less shots as well, the less likely you will be traced as well. That is where stealth comes into.


But back on topic to upgrading sniper rifles. It is up to the individual who would like to do it. It IS an expensive expidenture. You will have to pour alot of money into your rifle to get outperforming AEGs, which it will, if you pour in the money to get it to that point. People who get into sniping usually understand that.
______________________________________________________________

My first sniper rifle:




Maruzen APS2 SV

- Laylax APS Cylinder
- Laylax APS Piston & Piston head
- Laylax APS Taper Cylinder Head
- Laylax APS Spring Guide
- Laylax Reinforced Bolt Handle
- Laylax PSS2 Zero Trigger
- Laylax Power Accuracy Cup
- 400mm 6.01 Edgi Barrel Ported
- PDI APS2 Hop-up Chamber
- Promethues red Hard bucking
- Big-out H nub
- Laylax 150 spring (About 500FPS)
- QD Versapod Bipod
- Tasco 3-9X 30

My second sniper rifle:

TM VSR GSPEC
-3 Magazines
-Leapers Scope
-Laylax PSS10 430mm inner barrel
-Nine Ball Hop-up Bucking (Modded for SCS arm)
-King Arms Hop-up bucking (Modded for SCS arm)
-VSR hop-up arm (Stock)
-VSR hop-up arm (SCS modded)
-VSR Hop-up arm (Modded by Tux)
-PDI Bore-up Palsonite VC Cylinder Set
-(Includes Hard Piston, cylinder, cylinder head, spring guide)
-PDI Bore-up Cylinder Receiver
-PDI Bore-up V-trigger
-PDI Bore-up 150ms Spring
-Noobies Antiblowby rings
-Harris Bipod
-UTG Sling

Shooting 585 fps +-1fps when last chronoed

As you can see it takes alot to get alot. You get what you put in. You cannot just install all the parts either and then you are good to go. You have to tinker and get everything to correctly align; just like you would with an AEG.

How an AEG works: An AEG has too many moving parts though to be as precise with hitting its target as well as bolt action sniper rifles. No matter what you try, it just won't be as accuracte and precise. When you pull the trigger, you have the electric current go from the battery to the motor. The motor then engages and spins the pinion gear, which then moves the bevel gear, which moves the spur gear, which moves the sector gear. The sector gear pulls the piston back while at the same time moving the tappet plate. The tappet plate moves the air nozzle to allow one bb into the chamber and prevent double feeding. When the piston reaches a certain point, it releases from the gear and slams foward against the cylinder head. The air is pushed through the air nozzle goes through into the hop-up chamber and propels the bb through the hop-up bucking and through the barrel.

How a bolt-action works: The operator racks the bolt back and the piston engages on the 1st trigger sear. At the same time, a single bb is released from the magazine. As the operated had slid the bolt back at the ending of racking it, it chambers the round into the hop-up. When you pull the trigger, the 1st sear disengages and the piston head slams against the cylinder head. The air then travels through the hop-up chamber and propels the bb through the bucking and out the barrel. Alot simpler system with less variables. Thus equates to a more precise system.
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:54 pm

LOL...I think your a smart cookie Ace, but I don't think everyone who plays airsoft is so examples of super high fps sniper rifles aren't the best idea.

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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:15 pm

so ACE, you're coming this saturday?
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ACE
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:42 pm

Repo wrote:
LOL...I think your a smart cookie Ace, but I don't think everyone who plays airsoft is so examples of super high fps sniper rifles aren't the best idea.

Yea, but I bet you almost nobody on this site would bother spending that much time and money to building a setup like that anyway. (No offense to anyone). And plus, if someone comes to me asking for advice on a build, I will give it to them. I won't be a arrogant about it, I will give a straight foward answer. If they want to spend the money, then so be it. But it takes alot of it to outrange AEGs effectively, and it takes responsibility to prevent people from getting hurt on their part.

Gmery, I probably won't be out to an SFAR for a while. It is a very long drive for me, and I go where my team goes.
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Gmery
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PostSubject: Re: Help with VSR-10 Upgrades    Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:45 pm

where'ya live? shame, and i would spend time and money on my gun if its gona shoot nice haha
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